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[Tango]

I've frapsed him through his best and worst, you either haven't matched him much or are talking a bunch of shit (probably both), he had his share of bad matches, but he wasn't any more spotty than any other players I've played with, at his best, he's pretty good but he's not quite at the level you put him, at his worst, he's mediocre, not retarded.

I've matched him plenty of times. And I know this about RVS players: Generally, there are certain things that remain constant. Which angles you take, when you decide to prefire, how you react to certain situations--all those things generally remain constant. I'm not even including aim, because that might change depending on mouse, sensitivity, etc. It all comes down to whether you can play the game or not. If for the first 2 kills of a round, you appear to have the perceptual ability and intuition of a fox, but then lose that ability and begin to look like a dumbass when searching for the 3rd, that's quite a feat. How does that work? Did he stop trying? That's convenient. How about if that "ability" changes from round to round? How about if that "ability" completely disappears for a long period of time? I'm sorry. You either know how to play or you don't. Toggling doesn't suffice

I don't think any amount of pseudo logic can account for the fact that you don't have any proof. On the other hand I've frapsed him and observed his game play enough that I can say, you are completely full of shit. His game play does not change nearly as drastically as you claim. Generally, he just plays a little bit slower, and will miss more shots than he does at other times.. For most players this is normal. I don't know what kind of players you play with that play the same all the time, (edit: actually I do, they're called cheaters) but believe me, anyone who plays the same way all the time, is way fishier to me than someone who occasionally slumps a little.

[CHYME]

I don't think any amount of pseudo logic can account for the fact that you don't have any proof. On the other hand I've frapsed him and observed his game play enough that I can say, you are completely full of shit. His game play does not change nearly as drastically as you claim. Generally, he just plays a little bit slower, and will miss more shots than he does at other times.. For most players this is normal. I don't know what kind of players you play with that play the same all the time, (edit: actually I do, they're called cheaters) but believe me, anyone who plays the same way all the time, is way fishier to me than someone who occasionally slumps a little.

I've never once said that I had "proof" of him cheating. You're great at making abberant claims to further diverge the subject. As a matter of fact, no amount of convincing, whether it be by pseudo-logic or by actual logic, will change either of our opinions on this subject. That's all we've got--opinions. The only difference is how we support them. And if the logic I've used is deemed sketchy by your standard, then kill yourself now, because you've proven incapable of reaching your own standard. We both have circumstantial evidence that supports what we believe. The difference is that you think your fraps footage and observations are more legitimate than my observations (sorry that I didn't care enough to ever fraps him).

And @ directly stating that consistent players are more fishy than inconsistent players (i.e. players who suck and then suddenly became real good, or vice versa). Pseudo-logic?

[Tango]

I don't think any amount of pseudo logic can account for the fact that you don't have any proof. On the other hand I've frapsed him and observed his game play enough that I can say, you are completely full of shit. His game play does not change nearly as drastically as you claim. Generally, he just plays a little bit slower, and will miss more shots than he does at other times.. For most players this is normal. I don't know what kind of players you play with that play the same all the time, (edit: actually I do, they're called cheaters) but believe me, anyone who plays the same way all the time, is way fishier to me than someone who occasionally slumps a little.

I've never once said that I had "proof" of him cheating. You're great at making abberant claims to further diverge the subject. As a matter of fact, no amount of convincing, whether it be by pseudo-logic or by actual logic, will change either of our opinions on this subject. That's all we've got--opinions. The only difference is how we support them. And if the logic I've used is deemed sketchy by your standard, then kill yourself now, because you've proven incapable of reaching your own standard. We both have circumstantial evidence that supports what we believe. The difference is that you think your fraps footage and observations are more legitimate than my observations (sorry that I didn't care enough to ever fraps him).

You're right, only problem is that you misinterpreted my statement. I meant that, without proof, your accusation doesn't mean anything. If you want to say, "I think Roth cheats" and leave it at that, that's fine. I'll leave it at; he's never been banned, never backed out of connecting to any type of server running any kind of new anticheat software, I've watched him and rewatched him, and there is absolutely nothing conclusive that comes up from spectating him. As a result of my observations, which I do believe are better than yours, I do not believe he cheated.

From a completely objective stand point, I can say this, if Roth cheated, he has a pretty good hack, is a professional liar and is quite talented at hiding his cheating.... maybe I'm just too biased on the subject, but I refuse to believe that without proof. And if your are going to accuse him without offering any, than, as his team mate, I will defend him. If you can prove he cheats, I'll eat my keyboard.

And @ directly stating that consistent players are more fishy than inconsistent players (i.e. players who suck and then suddenly became real good, or vice versa). Pseudo-logic?

wrong word choice on my part, What I meant to say was players who play at a very high level all the time, not just consistent, but amazingly consistent are fishier than someone who plays well, and then plays not so well. There are only a couple players I can think of that would fit that description and they're both banned.

[deadprez]

for the record, i'm considering myself to be the best raven shield player to ever play, ever, ever and... ever.

thanks for the support. rape you in a server soon.

[CHYME]

From a completely objective stand point, I can say this, if Roth cheated, he has a pretty good hack, is a professional liar and is quite talented at hiding his cheating.... maybe I'm just too biased on the subject, but I refuse to believe that without proof. And if your are going to accuse him without offering any, than, as his team mate, I will defend him. If you can prove he cheats, I'll eat my keyboard.

Right on. I don't expect you believe it. You're far too entrenched in the "team iD, go go go, we're the best" mantra to objectively offer anything else. But really, I don't blame you. You probably haven't matched him, and sometimes you need that experience to see what everybody else sees. For example, the idiots on Kumquat's team swore on their grandparents' graves that Kumquat was legit. And this dude was the most blatant guy I've ever seen. Roth is the opposite. So you can see how I believe your observations aren't really "better" than mine at all.

[Tango]

From a completely objective stand point, I can say this, if Roth cheated, he has a pretty good hack, is a professional liar and is quite talented at hiding his cheating.... maybe I'm just too biased on the subject, but I refuse to believe that without proof. And if your are going to accuse him without offering any, than, as his team mate, I will defend him. If you can prove he cheats, I'll eat my keyboard.

Right on. I don't expect you believe it. You're far too entrenched in the "team iD, go go go, we're the best" mantra to objectively offer anything else. But really, I don't blame you. You probably haven't matched him, and sometimes you need that experience to see what everybody else sees. For example, the idiots on Kumquat's team swore on their grandparents' graves that Kumquat was legit. And this dude was the most blatant guy I've ever seen. Roth is the opposite. So you can see how I believe your observations aren't really "better" than mine at all.

I've matched against him several times with at least 3 different teams. I know what he's capable of, and I'm not afraid to admit he's good. I've just never been that impressed that I had to resort to calling hacks.

[CHYME]

I've matched against him several times with at least 3 different teams. I know what he's capable of, and I'm not afraid to admit he's good. I've just never been that impressed that I had to resort to calling hacks.

Heh. We'll agree to disagree. I just don't think he's good.

[deadprez]

i've matched against him aswell, and it is the reason i don't think he hacks either.. and i doubt we've ever said we're the best, bring me the proof!

[Cloud]

We're the best?